It's likely this matter won't be fully resolved until early 2015. Scarborough City Centre remains one of the central business districts outside Downtown Toronto . The TTC was unwilling to have a repeat of the vocal complaints they had received from residents abutting the line north of Kennedy Station. This will replace the current Line 3 Scarborough that passes through the centre. When you publish articles like this, without diving into any of the other aspects of this community, you are ignoring the true spirit and merit of everyone in it, and further perpetuating the (rather ridiculous) idea that we are a suburban, crime-ridden wasteland. How did boring, white-bread Scarberia become Scarlem so this ignorant fool is basically exaggerating the situation.. as a Scarborough resident I can say that the gangs that may have once been actual are now close to non-existent. Other features would include an underground bus platform with 12 to 16 bus bays. We definitely stayed our later without parent supervision. You would find some other group to maybe tag along with. Thank you! The TTC favoured the extension of the Sheppard subway line east towards the Scarborough Town Centre. In addition to Scarborough Centre station, two other stations from Line 3 Scarborough are situated in Scarborough Centre, Midland station is a station west of Scarborough Centre, situated along the centre's western boundary, while McCowan station is situated east of Scarborough Centre station, and acts as the line's terminus. I don't really have any info about big events, etc., but I highly suggest you watch Barenaked Ladies' video for Lovers In a Dangerous Time. Economically, the early 1990s were a tough time in Ontario (and most of Canada). [4], On August 4, 2016, the new food court opened below the existing food court and was branded as TASTE MRKT. Contents 1 Character 2 History 3 Transportation 4 See also This past August, HBC announced that it was reviving the Zellers banner, a decade after the discount chain closed most of its stores in Canada. But both organized gangs and street gangs are now embracing multiculturalism. The writer is dumb and so is this magazine. The inexpensive houses that Crockford had championed werent aging well. Currently, multiple plans are proposed for the shopping mall and its surroundings. Yet Scarborough remains a symbol of a certain kind of alienation. I think most of the residential shots were just off Brimorton and Markham (Par, Hiscock, etc). This past September, Dineshkumar Murugiah, a 16-year-old student at Scarboroughs Winston Churchill Collegiate, was stabbed to death in what appeared to be a targeted attack. How did boring, white-bread Scarberia become Scarlema mess of street gangs, firebombings and stabbings? In its cluster of high-rises and ordered bungalows, in its open spacesthe tortured prairie that opens up among the concrete, residue of its farm roots only a few generations agoin the generic housing projects and malls, they have failed to find a meaningful place to arrive at. LSD was popular at this time too. See map: Google Maps. By Chris Burn 17th Dec . Wheelchair Accessible. Converse Men's Chuck Taylor All Star Classic Hi Top Black, Canvas, Citizen Promaster Snowbirds Skyhawk A-T 46mm Men's Chronograph Sport Watch - Silver/Blue. We'd go downtown when we were feeling adventurous. We need both information from the book and real life for the project. The extension of TTC's Line 2 Bloor-Danforth subway line is currently under construction, which will extend the line 7.8 kilometers. A pedestrian walkway will connect the mall with the new movie theatre. Was that the cheap theatre at Fairview Mall? Demographically, the mix in Scarborough was different in the 1990s. It was a little boring but safe. We act like turtles. You'll see lots of strip plazas (which (still) makes up the bulk of Scarborough), and of course, the never to be missed, and never to be forgotten Hydro corridors. Driving through the suburbs pockets of beauty and its desolate, ill-defined tracts, wide unpopulated streets, strip malls and random industry, theres the physical expression of Putnams dystopic view. Scarborough was something else back then. At its centre core is the Scarborough Civic Centre, Albert Campbell Square, Scarborough Town Centre shopping mall, and the Canada Centre Building. The 416/905 split was a big event from that era. In terms of events, the GM van assembly plant on Eglinton near Pharmacy closed down in 1993. In 1948, Crockford and the town council bought 250 acres of land that had been occupied by a munitions manufacturer on Eglinton between Birchmount and Pharmacy. Malvern was always part of the RT plan, even after its design was changed to accommodate ICTS technology. The West Indian gangs began to form in the 1980s, and other ethnic groups followed. As proposed it would have been located in the midst of a large commercial development at the south-east corner of Sheppard Avenue and Markham Road called Palmerston Place. Compare this to, say, the Agincourt GO station with an approximately 25 to 30 minute run to downtown. SCARBOROUGH TOWN CENTRE. Salmon was wearing oversized hip-hop fatigues and had a lean Snoop Dogg look. The construction added 22,000m2 (240,000sqft) of retail space, and was opened on August 8, 1979. Even this compromise couldn't last, as certain politicians tried to gain favour for a new rapid transit expansion plan called One City, which would have replaced the Scarborough RT with an extension of the Bloor-Danforth subway along a different alignment to the Sheppard and McCowan intersection. Town Centre of Tomorrow: Past and Present in Middle Scarborough Guided by Morgen Peers Date - Sunday, May 6, 2012 Start Time - 11:30 am Our walk will begin at McCowan SRT Station. A more disturbing finding was that second-generation immigrants feel less attached than their parents to Canada. There were rocks to sit on, some natural gravel clearings to have a firesome paths we used to follow taking you miles out to West hill. The problem with Scarborough is that it wasnt designed for the future, as Oliver Crockford (and almost everyone else) thought in 1954, but for a brief, unsustainable moment in history. . Six months later, the Harris Conservatives pulled out of capital spending for public transportation altogether. On a Friday afternoon, there are handfuls of teenage boys in the posture of gang members, lounging on the stairways in a feline sprawl, radiating entitlement. The question of extending the RT did come back into play starting in 2005, as the TTC calculated that the Scarborough RT was ten years away from requiring significant renovations in order to keep operating. Engineering plans showing Markham Road Station and the pedestrian connection to Centennial College. The assignment requires us to make a presentation about the book we are reading, which is about a family living in Scarborough in the 1990s. Skating at Civic centre (adjacent to STC) or Centennial and for me Malvern Rec was where my friends and I used to frequent on Friday/Saturday nights. By the early 1990s, the City of Scarborough had approved $1 billion in development in the Malvern area while predictions indicated that growth around the Town Centre would add approximately 15,000 residents plus 21,000 jobs. The small move theater inside Scarborough Town Centre that was eventually replaced with all the construction. [10], The mall's latest renovation in 2010, branded "Lighten Up," gave retailers such as Victoria's Secret interests in retail space. Scarboroughs most successful erathe 1950s and 60swas due to rapid growth, affordable housing, the proximity of reasonably well-paying jobs, and more than anything, the ascendency and dominance of the automobile. Nine young men were arrested in connection with the firebombing and other assaults. From there the line would head north. It is shared to some degree by the 63 per cent of Canadians who cant recite the first line of the national anthem, and the 22 per cent who believe that Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is Canadas constitutional slogan. Line 3 will be demolished and in its place, Line 2 Bloor-Danforth will be extended, relocating Scarborough Centre station by 202930. It is ultimately attitudes like these that keep Scarborough down, and frankly, were tired of it. Portrait of Torontos unluckiest suburb, By Don Gillmor | Photography by Derek Shapton. There would be 500 to 750 parking spaces. Once extended, Line 2 will provide a one-seat ride to Downtown Toronto from Scarborough City Centre.[5]. The victim and three friends were in a bus bay when three men came over and told them to turn the music off. With the election of the Conservative government under Mike Harris in June 1995, plans for the eastern extension of the Scarborough RT dropped off of Toronto's transit radar. By and large, at least the police jumps on the criminals. The current theatre would be replaced with a new movie theatre adjacent to the former Sears location. Scarborough was incorporated as a township in 1850 with a population of 3,821, and it grew modestly until the post-war boom, when it began to take its current shape. $ % ^ & ) . (A lot of the setup in the "Wayne's World" segments is about Myers and his friends hanging out in his basement.) It was in 1793 that Elizabeth Simcoe, wife of John Graves Simcoe, first viewed the Scarborough bluffs, which reminded her of the limestone cliffs at Scarborough in England: The shore is extremely bold, and has the appearance of chalk cliffs, but I believe they are only white sand. There were cliques. And its not just that we dont trust people who are not like us. Scarborough City Centre remains one of the central business districts outside Downtown Toronto. What's a good bar to go for a first date? With StyList search & shopSTC Mall. Other than that a huge area that was very very safe I used to ride my bike for hours exploring every inch of it ..all the way from pickering to Morningside mall! The words and images found within this web site cannot be used with impunity. The first inductees were burn-unit founder Dr. Lloyd N. Carlsen, educator Dr. R. H. King, NBA player Jamaal Magloire, pulmonary scientist Dr. Charles C. Macklin, artist Doris McCarthy, Lieutenant Governor of Ontario and former television personality, The Honourable David Onley, Olympic hockey player Vicky Sunohara, pioneer David Thomson, hip-hop artist Wes Williams, and geriatric care entrepreneur Dr. Joseph Yu Kai Wong. On April 13, 2007, 21-year-old Nick Brown was stabbed at Victoria Park subway station and found dead in the last train that pulled into Kennedy station, his body discovered by a transit worker. The extension would use ICTS vehicles like those used on the existing RT line - no real difference. In the end, it was the cost of the project, taken alongside the four projects the NDP government was pushing (Sheppard Subway, Eglinton West Subway and the York University extension) that caused the Metro government to hesitate on approving this proposal. Get Directions. The proposed 3.2 km route would have taken passengers on an elevated guideway east of McCowan station, then slightly south through the existing (but, by the time of the extension's opening, decommissioned) McCowan Yard then north again across Bellamy Road. Main Phone: 847-437-8900. I am working on an assignment for my English class. Scarborough Town Centre currently includes Hudson's Bay, Walmart, and Cineplex Cinemas as its anchors. It has more than 121,000 m 2 (1,300,000 sq ft) and about 250 plus stores, making it the fourth-largest shopping centre in Greater Toronto, after Square One Shopping Centre, Yorkdale Shopping Centre, and Toronto Eaton Centre . This site is best viewed with Quadrat's Toronto Subway font or Helvetica Neue. Many people assumed that the RT extension had suddenly come to life again in the mid-90's when piers appeared over highway 401 north of Centennial College. He survived, and Arun Muthuthevar, 21, Sarangan Ragunath, 18, and Thanaraj Thangarajah, 19, were charged with attempted murder. The banner reached its height at the end of the. Anytime. The hotel that is now the "Delta Toronto East" (NE corner of Kennedy / 401) opened either in the late 1980s or early 1990s, EDIT: in the early 1980s as the "Ramada Renaissance". The extension would have cost an estimated $430 million dollars, almost double what the initial line cost to build. The new yard would have been located east of the future Bellamy Station location, with the two running tracks straddling a third centre track, rising up from ground level and connected to the main line by switches in both directions. Some exclusions apply. It was like nothing was real. Scarborough had a reputation for being tough and / or a remote suburban wasteland (Scarberia). The Scarborough demographic shows that Chinese make up 17.73 per cent of the communitys roughly 600,000 people, South Asians 17.76 per cent, blacks 10.09 per cent and Filipinos five per cent, with Afghans and others having less than two per cent each. Charged with his murder was 26-year-old Scarborough native John Paul Vallon. The regional malls were nicer back then. The store is the 5th in the GTA. But at the street gang level, its a surprise. The Golden Mile Plaza soon appeared on Eglinton, a strip mall so luminous it was visited by Queen Elizabeth in 1959. In the entire history of transit projects in and around Toronto, few (if any) have suffered the politics surrounding the RT line itself. They have all the ingredients: uninviting and unclaimed spaces, housing stock that is neither as durable nor as adaptable to other uses as the sturdy brick buildings of the inner city, a shortage of well-paying jobs, architecture that is disposable and arbitrary, and the need for cars at a time when energy prices are rising and may become prohibitive for many. Scarborough Town Centre in May 1992 Show more TORONTO - JUNE 14, 1990 - Guided Tour of Downtown Brian Hardy 44K views 5 years ago Toronto food finding walk: Scarborough Town Centre Mall and. Sometimes, the boys admitted, it was because the FOBs, with their broken English, different clothes and alien haircuts, reminded them of themselves when they arrived, the version they had since cast off. The area was formerly represented as Ward 38 Scarborough Centre, in the 44 Ward city council model. It was in pursuit of a specific Scarborough identity, at once geographic, architectural and cultural, that architect Raymond Moriyama was commissioned to design a civic centre in 1968 on a site that was roughly the centre of the borough, near the junction of McCowan and the 401. You can write articles like this we cant deny these facts and statistics but you cant continue to act as if thats the only thing going on here. I am not naive to the fact that Scarborough has a gang culture but thats not all there is here, nor is Scarborough defined by it. Fast forward to the present day, and it's thriving again. There may not be any actual connection to the famous American gangs, and the choice of colours may have been arbitrary. The place was booming. If the RT system had expanded, it would have outgrown McCowan Yard, and thus the TTC decided to plan for a new yard instead of expanding the old one. Recommended option Bus Take the bus from Scarborough, ON to Toronto Union Station Eglinton Square Shopping Centre was constructed that year. The TTC noted that the proposed right-of-way northeast of Sheppard and Markham shrank rapidly, and the line through here would be near people's backyards. But both Detective Sergeant Gary Grinton of the homicide squad and Pastor David Loganathan of the Miracle Family Temple said Dinesh had no known gang ties. This pattern existed in other groups: with Jamaicans in the 1980s, where new immigrants were called Freshies, and it has been seen in the Sikh community (where new arrivals are called Gurus) and Chinese community (pitting the CBCsCanadian-born Chineseagainst Chinese FOBs). Of course, the extension did not go according to schedule. Where ethnic groups do form, they tend to fight one another as much as they fight other different ethnicities, clashing over drugs or turf, or in the case of the Tamil feuds, over who is more Canadian, or at least, who is unacceptably foreign. So cheap too at like 2-3 bucks a hit! Waiting for the group to gather before heading out to wherever. The Scarborough Centre station and the Scarborough Centre Bus Terminal are situated adjacent to one another, next to the Scarborough Town Centre and Scarborough Civic Centre. The political discussion in the early 1990s was about the Rae government's austerity and negotiations with public-sector unions ("Rae Days") as they tried to navigate the recession as a rookie government. It is the greenest of Torontos suburbs, with a network of ravines moving through its 187 square kilometres like fault lines. [14], A proposal was created by Oxford Properties to redevelop the centre. The spectre of ethnic gangs, of sectarian tension, floats through it. It was designated as industrial because Crockford felt that residential taxes alone wouldnt finance new growth in Scarborough. Zellers was founded in 1931 and acquired by HBC in 1978. He said music has replaced crime for him. In February 2021, it was announced that the second level of the former Sears location had been prepared as a large-scale clinic for distribution of the COVID-19 vaccine during the COVID-19 pandemic in Toronto.[13]. In addition to Line 3, Scarborough Centre is a busy terminal for a number of TTC bus routes, as well as GO Transit. Five days later, a 16-year-old boy was stabbed twice at Kennedy in a fight that was ostensibly about music. The roughly four incidents a day across the system are still statistically low considering how many people use it, but the stabbings at Kennedy left indelible fears. See in-store for more details. The suburb has operated as a foil to Toronto for years, the unsophisticated past that Toronto feels it has sloughed off, Jersey to its Manhattan. Just adding to this, the malls were much bigger and much more populated than they are now. It is a delineation that isnt underpinned by philosophic or racial differences, but a random alliance with a romanticized, well-publicized ideal. Sheppard East Station - The only RT station comparable to this would be the Town Centre station. They began as a natural outgrowth of specific neighbourhoods made up of boys who bonded through shared experience and developed trust and allegiances that often fell along ethnic lines. Anyplace. One from that time I liked was Slowgun and the lead singer, Alex Liu was from Scarborough. Among the dozens of tribes in Scarborough are gangs that accommodate Afghans, Tamils, Chinese and West Indians. However in 2018, a 25 Ward model was adopted, resulting in Wards 38 and 37 merging to create Ward 21 Scarborough Centre. Although the farm was eventually converted to residential and industrial land, the production facility continued to operate on Progress Avenue until 2001.[1]. In 2023 the town will see its famous Scarborough Fair being revived (April 8 to May 29), with a line-up spanning theatre, dance, comedy, juggling and, frighteningly, 'combat'. Crockford allowed the highest density of single-family units per acre in the city, maximizing profits for the developers and giving working people a chance to own their own home. As part of the metropolitan governments planning policy, plans were put forth to develop the city centres of municipalities surrounding the City of Toronto, which originated as rural townships rather than distinct urban settlements. The stretch along Eglinton became known as the Golden Mile of Industry, and factories in other parts of the city relocated to share its cachet. Public transit doesnt adequately service the area, and, ironically, its in those transit stations where the most vital signs of life are seen. The late 1990s were about Mike Harris and amalgamation into the City of Toronto. Architecturally indistinct, its built on four floors, a compact building that opens up on the top level. The unreality that Cory Salmon described was shared by the girl at Winston Churchill who had failed to be moved in the way the tearful, hugging cliques of American students are routinely moved. Income is sporadic and inequitably distributed. One early development was the TV studios of CFTO-TV at the intersection of the 401 and McCowan Road. Please contact the theater for more information. Aerial photo of Scarborough town centre Scarborough Ha NOTE: You could describe a statistical Scarborough that glimmers like a perfect mirage of the Canadian myth. Contact name: STC MANAGEMENT OFFICE. This was the symbiotic dream. 7 .7 Avatar: The Way of Water PG 2022 3h12m Sci-fi thriller Zoe Saldana & Sam Worthington 5th week It also seemed poorer overall looking back but maybe that was just the places I lived??? Rail and Transit magazine said "because of its short length, the Scarborough RT extension would likely be the first to open, if everything goes according to schedule, just before the turn of the century". It is expected that the transformation of The Brunswick . Scarborough Town Centre. In the GTA, three new Zellers stores will open at Scarborough Town Centre in Toronto, Erin Mills in Mississauga, and at the Burlington Mall. Scarborough Town Centre, Toronto Ontario 1,600,000: 148,645 . SCARBOROUGH, M1P 4P5, CA. Jim Carrey also spent time in Scarborough, a fine breeding ground for chameleonic comics who can inhabit a dozen different identities with eerie precision. Further development was slow, in part because the transit system didnt get there until 1985, and some of the surrounding land was owned by the Eaton empire, which gave it up reluctantly. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. What was West Germany like during the 1980s? Other than that Scarborough had kids playing street hockey on every street, lots or parties and plaza hanging as I mentioned IM me if you have specific questions. Looking back it seems that the politicians, buoyed by dreams of revolutionary new modes of travel, could not countenance a very basic engineering principle: Keep it simple and stupid (KISS). But identity is a powerful lure. Markham Station - Reading the plans, this would have been a challenging location to build a station. The upper level of the food court is now closed and has reopened as a mall space with unique dining atmosphere for shoppers by offering more upscale, interior-patio style seating underneath the existing skylight.[12]. Also took dates to "Coffee Tea or Me" which was on Lawrence, west of Warden. Hash was everywhere at that time for whatever reason. Big box stores moved in with their hulking remove. And there's the rub. Open Closes at 7:00 PM. The teething problems experienced by the new ICTS cars cooled the TTC's enthusiasm for the extension. Please read our Oxford Privacy Statement for more details. It had a nice restaurant with live music, and we would take dates there for dessert when we were feeling rich. It was designed to serve as part of the civic and commercial centre of what was then the Borough of Scarborough. This is understandable at the level of organized gangs, which are essentially corporate in their world view and have moved into such sophisticated and lucrative crimes as credit card fraud and identity theft. $3,400. Any information like big events, pop culture, cool places to go etc. Plans show that the station would straddle Markham Road at an angle, just north of Progress Avenue. A Miniso also opened outside of Walmart, in the former Roots Canada, which has relocated next to Aritzia. (I had left Scarborough by then.). Like the old clich of Scarberia (a term that was coined in the 1960s, connoted exile and has now gone out of use, it seems), this new Scarborough (whose occasional appellatives Scarlem and Scartown imply race or violence and havent been adopted with any widespread enthusiasm) is a combination of truth and caricature. An architectural model of Milner station, courtesy of the architects' website. I never really took anything seriously.. Not just Scarborough Town Centre, smaller malls like Woodside Square, Bridlewood Mall, Cedarbrae, even Malvern mall, used to have like everything from clothing stores, to huge department store anchors (sometimes even two even for smaller malls), and cinemas. Rather than plan for the cost of mitigating the effects of the line north of Sheppard Avenue, the TTC decided to end the RT extension at Sheppard instead, if indeed they decided to go that far. Formerly, they were located on a walkway between the food courts of the mall, on the upper level. In a national survey, the Dominion Institute found 46 per cent of respondents unable to name the countrys first prime minister. Most of that video with the A&A was east of Lawrence on Markham. Scarborough Town Centre (STC) is a shopping mall in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. She was floating through this landscape, untethered, but she was prepared to do another take. It wouldnt be out of the ordinary if there was a random pair of drunk kids looking for their friends and if we had seen them and where they could possibly be. This was Canadian life at its most ordered and optimistic, the Waynes World version that Mike Myers recreated with such success, a benign, uneventful land of adolescent ennui. The average condo premium over the past year was $311,434, compared to the average freehold price of $705,478 over the same timeframe. This offer cannot be combined with any other promotion. A study published by the Institute for Research on Public Policy showed that non-white immigrants to Canada come here with a greater sense of belonging than white immigrants, but that over time, the white immigrants sense of belonging grows, while the non-whites diminishes. 2023. These three alone put Scarborough on the map for a lot of us Canadians that lived elsewhere. The Sears location would be renovated and divided into at least 18 retail units with three levels. They may exist in the shadows of larger organized gangs who may or may not afford some kind of tacit protection for those within its borders. There's a small shot of the Real McCoys at Markham and Brimorton, then a shot of the small united church which is now a presbyterian church, and the apartment buildings immediately east of Scarborough Golf on Lawrence south of Mossbank. 1050 Elk Grove Town Center , Elk Grove Village IL 60007 | (847) 228-6707. This median was set aside years ago for the RT project. Rush Truck Centers - Elk Grove. I remember this mini-riot from the Scarborough Town Centre -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcqVFBsfQk0 (Gotta love YouTube). That said, there were all the mainstays. To the north of McCowan station is a set of offices and an enormous condominium development that would be better served by a station built at Bellamy Road. By the park? How do you cite your sources if you just go on r/askto? And what about rainbow cinemas? Scarborough town centre with pedestrianised paving, seating, a plethora of shops from big brands to local artisan to keep you browsing all day. Two years later, Toronto City Council rebelled against this edict and overruled their mayor, bringing the Eglinton LRT back to grade east of the Don Valley Parkway, and reinstating the Sheppard East project. I was going to say, if you want info about the 1990s, try going into a Legion and ask if you can interview them. Scarborough is not an anomaly but a harbinger. Movie showtimes . Miracle Food Mart, a supermarket was also located in the mall; part of the Steinbergs chain, it was co-located with a Miracle Mart, a discount department store. Source: Live right there now at this later point in my life. To access the official websites of these agencies, consult this page here. This is NOT the official website of the Toronto Transit Commission, Metrolinx or any other transit provider or government agency. The first stage was to take the LRT to the Scarborough Town Centre, but beyond that, the TTC hoped to serve the developing community of Malvern, and perhaps points further east, such as the Zoo, or even Pickering. It was really a great place to grow up. Sort by. Scarborough City Centre is a commercial district in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Its the third busiest station in the system (next to Bloor-Yonge and St. George), servicing almost 75,000 people a day. I opt-in to receive email communications from Oxford Properties Group, 900-100 Adelaide Street West, Toronto, Ontario M5H 0E2, privacy@oxfordproperties.com regarding news, events and offers. Scarborough became part of Metropolitan Toronto in 1954 when "Metro" was carved out of York County. The eastern border is the lush and extensive Rouge River Valley, which contains the 287-hectare Toronto Zoo. The company said these new Zellers locations will offer home decor items, toys, baby gear . [5] It made STC the second shopping mall in history (after Quebec's Promenades Saint-Bruno) to simultaneously have Eaton's, Simpson's and The Bay. But most of the students are heavily fortified with MP3 players and iPods, dancing or nodding or screeching in syncopation to artists other than Antonio Vivaldi. There is more to Scarboroughs malaise than the complications of multiculturalism, though. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); For a limited time only, visit the adidas store from January 17 January 31st, 2023. Music- Mariah Carey, Gwen Stephanie, notorious BIG, spice girls, back street boys, puff daddy Much Music TV was big and influential so maybe try and watch some clips off YouTube? Any actual connection to the former Roots Canada, which contains the 287-hectare Toronto.... The station would straddle Markham Road at an angle, just north of Kennedy station residential shots were just Brimorton... 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